近日筆者最容易聽到以下「Logic」:
首先由於美國次按一發不可收拾,而美國樓市將會持續下滑,至少下跌多20%至30%。在信貸市場持續緊縮下,不少「Prime Mortgage Lender」會在恐慌下拋售手頭上物業,另外不少人因失業下(因為Investment Banks裁員)不能再付擔「Prime Mortgage Payment」而令「Prime Mortgage Delinquency Rate」上升。
其後,問題會擴散至「Consumer Credit」,以至「Consumption」。最後,美國會陷入100年來最大的經濟大蕭條,而美股會大瀉。
由於世上再沒有「Decoupling」一回事,美股每下跌10%,新興市場會至少下跌20%。在股市恐慌性拋空下,連新興市場的長線投資者將會「投降」。在出口的增長減慢以及內需的疲弱下,亞洲經濟增長大幅放緩,世界末日不遠矣.......
有不少人以日本80至90年代的日本以及97年香港的樓市大泡沫為例,以証明樓市大泡沫會導至歷時很長的經濟大停滯。
以上「Logic」甚具說服力,對嗎? 但是筆者感說以上一連串事件難以一起發生:
1) 美國次按房貸不是佔總房貸金額一個高的比重,而房貸亦大約佔美國總貸款的26%左右,而次按房貸大約是總貸款的3%左右。如果貸款是經濟的縮影,那麼房地產市場不是一個很大的比重(香港的私人房貸比率亦是大約27%)
2) 那麼「Prime Mortgage」會否因「Spill-Over Effect」而爆煲? 機會不大。「Prime Mortgage」的供款者多是經濟能力較強的人仕,而在就業市場穩定(註: 3)和股息/債息收入穩定(註: 4),再加上樓價不大跌(註: 5)的情況下,斷供情況不大可能。
3) 如果有心研究美國的就業市場,不難發現美國自80年代中開始其就業人數的波動性遠比之前為低,同時總就業人數三十年來一直上升,其中1975、1982、1990以及2001年就業人數有輕微下降,但不成大問題。高就業穩定性的原因是「Outsourcing」的大趨勢下,美國的製造業工人佔總就業人口的比率由1980年的19%下降至現時的9%左右。相對「第三工業」來說,「第二工業(即製造業)」的勞工的穩定性不高,而美國亦早已將此風險轉嫁給亞洲的製造商。舉例說,經濟不景時企業還需要「Sales」、「Customer Service」、「Marketing」、「Finance」和「Accounting」等人才。但在訂單減少下,工廠就有迫切開除過剩的工人。
4) 美國不是一個(存款)儲蓄大國,但實際上美國人不算是揮霍。可解? 在多元化的投資選擇下,再加上員工多參與「401K」等投資計劃,而不少美國人有購買「Unit-linked」保單等情況下,自然不會將大部份「Disposable Income」乖乖地放進銀行內。不好說笑,沒有強大的儲蓄(筆者指銀行存款+保險+基金+債券+股票投資),金融市場何來有資金流入政府和企業中。沒有政府和企業的投資下,經濟又如何能維持多年增長?因此,不少美國人除工資外,還有不少投資現金收入。
在股市的估值不高,而不少大型上市企業投資於環球下,再加上「Outsourcing」能增加利潤下,股息收入不像會有「大縮水」。
5) 據「IMF」的預計,現時美國的樓價對比1997年計,不能解釋(即不是收入、通漲、利率等因素能解釋)的累積升幅為10%左右,相對英國和愛爾蘭的30%,美國的樓市並不過火,而且「Affordability Ratio」亦是歷史的中位數。固此美國樓價下跌空間不多。
6) 日本90年代的大泡沫並不局限於樓市,股市亦是天價。另外,日本政府無條件地不斷為經營不善的金融機構注入資金,同時不為它們進行改革。亦是令日本經濟淊入十多年的大停滯的其一主兇。相反,美國現時讓風險管理不善的金融機搆倒閉(如 Bear Stearn),而美股普遍估值不貴。日本的例子在美國重演,談何容易。
7) 新興市場一定會同美國股市同一方向走?? 07年已經不對。08年第一季,中東股市和台灣股市與美股背馳。
8) 新興市場的經濟一定因往美國的出口下降而走下坡?? 競爭力強的企業(如利豐、TSMC、鴻海)的訂單不降反增,而中國、印度和中東的新增中產勢力的購買力不容被忽視,支持住當地經濟。
結論是經濟放緩和信貸的風險仍是存在,但不如外界那麼悲觀。
16 則留言:
而家唔係 prime mortgage 供款者斷供, 而係買 prime mortgage 証券的買家用大杆桿買, 樓價跌少少呢班買家已周轉不靈, 焗住聯儲局要接受佢地 d 証券作抵押品比 $$$ 佢地周轉, 否則佢地執笠, 動移提供 margin 比佢地既銀行, 再影響整個銀行體系, 還款能力冇問題既都變有問題.
銀行體系暫時穩住, 但聯儲局接呢 d 証券化產品接到一褲都係, 聯儲局可以頂得幾耐, 冇人知.
Hi "For Jei":
USD depreciation (Fed prints more bank notes) can solve that. Liquidity for most commercial banks is not a big problem, keep an eye on banks like JP Morgan and Bank of America.
What I may show concern is the vast economy, but not the limited sector.
If you look at the DJIA, only finance sector underperformed during 1Q08 with different extent, while other sectors are solid.
貨幣供應增加冇錯可以依家解決到問題. 咁之後點呢? 大陸仲會唔會天真同傻咁仲走去買佢地既債 (由其係佢地既信用咁一流, 寄條 key 去銀行就一筆鉤消)?
國會又唔俾老美既實質資產, 咁要 D 美元仲咩? 用血汗生產咁多低價野益班友換o黎既就係冥通 bank note 同話你 D 貨係 junk. 咁不如叫班民工返鄉下耕田順便解決食品通脹好過...
我地香港 97' 年借錢買樓都唔夠佢地咁狼都要跌 5 成有多, 就算減返老董個筆同沙士, 老美唔係跌十幾 % 就得呀?
之後個世界點變, 小弟真係諗唔通...
Hi Eric:
If the stuff are back to normal, what could happen in 2009 and 2010 should be hiking US interest rate, real GDP recovery, thus an appreciation of USD.
Currency implies nothing but the confidence of a country, especially its economy.
i think point 4 is not quite rite, those investments are not exactly positive cash flow and american style is higly concerning about "living", even the 401, they would borrow much money in order to satisfy their needs. but rest are pretty fine.
point 8, 訂單不降反增, u think thi sis due to economy of scale? i still hear tht OEM orders are still pretty OK for manufaturers which i really doubt.
Hi Clovis:
Thanks for your comment!
Never underestimate the wealth of the US citizens. It's an economy of rich people, poor government.
The current US citizen are very rich and they have low job volatility; many of the US people enjoy the heritage assets from their parents and grand parents. An entire different story to emerging economies like China & India.
TSMC, Li & Fung, Foxconn are not low-end Asian manufacturers. Better take a look on their business models and compeititve advanatges.
do u think OEM business is gonna be erased in China soon?
Hi Clovis,
It's possible for the less competitive players, a natural selection process by the Market.
But in general, China will still maintain to be the most competitive manufacturing hub in the worlds, combining factors like cost, efficiency, infrastructural support, political stability and governmental efficiency.
Note that there is a migration of the manufacturers from the East to the Middle of the nation.
Albert,
阿伯唔見左隻錶,覺得身邊個死靚仔一向唔老泥:著埋d低B賴屎浪人褲,福頭帽,印印腳,好人有限....真系好想去打佢一鑊,要佢力番隻錶出泥唔系就打完再報警.............直到伯母打電話泥問佢惦解留底隻錶系屋企廁所..........
市場會唔會清醒過阿伯,無咁情緒化呢?
俺真系好相23蚊買中壽,75蚊買330...
Hi Albert,
I am currently living in US and please allow me to share my view on American living habit.
1) American like to spend and they do not need to have money in their pocket to spend because they only pay min. to credit card or retail company debit card.
2) I have an auntie who work for Kohl, which is one of the biggest retail stores in USA. She told me that Americans have been spending like crazy in the last two weeks (tax return). Alot of her customers told her that they did not want to spend but the products are too cheap which they can not resist not to buy. In general the products are on sales for 50-90%. Her company has been cutting back people working hours.
Also, their inventory is in historical high rite now.
I also have question on your point 3 because according to what I learn from the college, my prof told me that the unemployment rate and employment no# are deceptive because part time worker werent count previously. Currently, alot of poor people can only get part time jobs which count toward an employment to government statistic. (below 40 working hours)
Your point 4 could be right but I do not know if thats the majority of the citizen in USA. But right now, I do hear from people that they will spend all of the 600 USD they get from the government.
Thanks
Hi Kelvin,
Your points are interesting. To be honest, what I believe is a "貧富懸殊" society, just like in Hong Kong. "Sub-prime" crisis was triggered by the less-affluent people with unstable work.
Situation will also be different, depending on which state we look at. The poor could be poor, the rich & mid-class could be pretty well.
America is a society of "富藏於民", with the Coastal regions (East & West) better than the southern & middle regions. The "Smart" will know how to grow their wealths, while some people may still struggling at their financial break-even. This situation holds for all developed countries.
As what I've pointed out, occupation in the service-industry is in general less volatile than "manufacturing", which has been shifted to Asia. It's not suprising for the less-skilled labor to shift the discount-retailers like Wal-Mart. High-end retailers can also launch their "mid-end" series to maintain sales and profit. What being poor should be the "low-end Asian manufacturers" who suffer from hiking cost and volatile demand.
Except for food, energy and rentals, the prices of other necessities like telecom, electronics , softgoods and some hardgoods have been dropping over the years. If not, CPI should be as high as 10% yoy now.
Regarding the "lower pricing of the stuff in discount-retailers", thanks to the mega-outsourcing to Asian manufacturing over the years.
"Globalization" has helped you guys to save cost, although many foolish people still think of the Asians are grabbing their jobs. Instead, they're helping the US people...the magic of market economy ^_~
Hi Kelvin,
I have a guessing that Kohl (KSS) is a weaker player amongst the peers. The inventory problem assumption is yet to be proved.
My initial guessing is that good players can sell their goods faster while the weaker players have their inventory piled up, thus hurting their profit. The stock market has been very clever on that!
Compared to more competitive players like Target (TGT), Walmarts (WMT) & Costco (COST), the share price of KSS has been underpeforming them since Jan-07.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=1y&s=KSS&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=tgt
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=1y&s=KSS&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=wmt
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=1y&s=KSS&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=cost
While weaker players like Sears (SHLD) have been performing similarly compared to KSS.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=1y&s=KSS&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=SHLD
Hi Albert,
I do not know if the subprime crisis has become a problem after what the fed had done. According to my knowledge, it takes at least 1 year for the bank to take position of the problem houses. Currently, I heard alot of bank are willing to rearrange the mortgage payment instead of taking position of the houses.
According to what my observation, this year, not alot of houses are available for sales compare to the last few years. I talked to some property agent another day, they told us that the buyers have been slowly pick up the pace in buying the property.
I dont know stagflation will be the right term in this case. I am seeing a short term effect from the government policy but the problem will occur again once the rate begins to hike up because of inflation. Economy is not good but they are not bad either. I am more leaning toward to believe it has no growth.
Also I believe subprime problem has alot more to do with creditability to the bond trading market (in short term) more than the economy in general.
I think inflation will be the problem in the near future and decrease value of USD could not go any longer because there are voices of complaint about inflation. Food and energy have been hiking up like crazy lately. (similar to hk i guess)
As of your last point about globalization, I think the American in general has been misled by the politicians who try to make blames of the current economy situation to globalization.
Instead I believe that it is a problem of the spending culture that really causes the whole problem. People are overspending. I do agree with you that people spend with no hesitation because US do have a very good system that take cares the middle class and some poor people.
As of the comparison you made, I think you are comparing apple and orange here.
Usually, we compare target, walmart and kmart in the same industry.
Costco will be comparing to samsclub which is the distribution center of walmart.
kohl competition is sears, jc penny and others.
Kohl and sears = wing on
walmart and target = super parknshop (not the one in hk but more similar to the one in china)
I hope my message wont bored you to death.
Thanks Kelvin!
Seems we agree on the same point!
US economy is neither good nor too bad.
And Sub-prime won't kill the country in the mid-to-long run.
My comments:
the logic you mentioned is happening, the question is the magnitude.
Whether US would be another Japan depends on demographics. JPN people used to borrow $ from banks and planned to repay the houses in 3 generations, when these 20 years old are getting to their 50s and found they are retiring but they houses are still only worth 1/2 original value, all kinds of consumption stop and they just save, save and save. Had the retiring US baby boomers used up their 'virtual property credit'? If so, there would be a big problem, hope Kelvin bring us some local insights.
1)ur right, subprime FI are going to sucks. Of the different kinds of subprimes, I think CDOs> receivables> SIV, because of the accelerated a/c writeoff/ provision treatment. CDOs may have taken enough charge, receivables dont, for SIV you just dono the leverage, just dont touch.
2)It would, but to different extent, should be not as disastrous as the sub
3)The key to whole US econ depending on retails, if retails are going to dry, things gotta to be ugly.
4)They are using their "MPF" in our words. But the Cola and alikes are not going to suffer, they would still provide boost to US mkt, becoz big US co in stock mkt are MNC, unlike HK.
5) From this http://investmenttools.com/median_and_average_sales_prices_of_houses_sold_in_the_us.htm, we see the median price now 287k, 10yrs ago 187k, avg a 4%/ yr. not a scaring rise, but mind that properties have strong inertia to move in a same direction until got to a very extreme. Also mind that prices for diff locations do vary a lot.
6.demograhics again.
7. not necessarily, these times the problem is US FI are dumping at whatever prices to save their mother co. their own work and stock options are more important than client's funds. need to wait.
8. agree, not necessarily
想借文一用,唔知可唔可以呢?
Thanks
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